There are two crippling points for the average person walking a Celtic Pagan path in my opinion: preconceptions and mistaken assumptions. They make it as difficult to walk a Celtic path as two broken legs make walking up the street. For example the average person interested in forms of Traditional Irish Religion really doesn’t know much about them. He does not understand how groups are structured or how it’s propagated. That’s OK – any kind of Native Paganism is an obscure subject. We only hit the stumbling block when we don’t recognize that lack of knowledge.
In most cases in my country, by dint of living in Ireland, we are convinced that we do know quite a bit about the subject. Given that Traditional Irish Religion is a minority religion within Celtic Paganism, itself a minority religion in Ireland, never mind the scarcity of Traditional Irish Religion outside Ireland, most of the knowledge we acquire is almost never through personal exposure to actual native forms of paganism.
On top of books, films and other similar sources, we primarily base our knowledge about Traditional Irish Religion on what we already know from more popular forms of Celtic Paganism. From Celtic Wicca, Celtic Shamanism, Druidry etc. We assume that people practicing Traditional Irish Religions are organized into similar groups too and are taught about it in the same way as in those popular forms of Celtic Paganism. We might be very disappointed when we see groups of people at sacred sites seemingly walking around instead of performing group rituals. We might suspect Traditional Irish Religions aren’t religions at all because no one is loudly invoking a deity. We are used to things from more popular forms of Celtic Paganism and can assume they are universal in Celtic Paganism. When Traditional Irish Religions do not meet our preconceived expectations rather than considering the possibility that those expectations might be misplaced or in error, we can become frustrated.
In my experience approaching any neopagan path with preconceptions is one of the greatest hobbling posts to neopagans today. Nearly as big a problem is the mistaken assumptions people have.
A while back on an internet poetry forum the subject of duotheism within Celtic Paganism came up. Specifically, someone wanted to know the names of ‘the god and goddess’ in the Irish Culture. When an elderly person, a man whose family may have practiced a form of Celtic Paganism in Ireland long before Gardner made his efforts public, responded by saying the concept of a God and Goddess didn’t exist in his tradition – the forum became a battle field. There was outrage, he was called so many big words by way of insults there must have been a sale on insult-word-a-day toilet paper or something. The main gist of the complaints seemed to me to be that he was being insensitive in the format of his reply and he was behind the times. What’s comment worthy in my opinion is not one of the critics had even a fraction of his experience and none of them bothered to ask why he didn’t believe in duotheism.
Those people were incensed by a simple response in text on an internet forum because of the mistaken assumption that Traditional Irish Religions have to meet the same standard formula as popular forms of Celtic Paganism. That it had to be sensitive to individual tastes and needs and had to be democratic and fair. Whether or not I agree that duotheism is absent from Traditional Irish Religions, it is based on a cultural tradition, and because of that, and maybe to its detriment in a modernist society it’s not something that can be altered to suit the situation. It’s validated not by its mass appeal but by its relationship to our culture. It’s not for everyone, it’s not even for everyone in Ireland. It wont suit everyone’s tastes but instead of using the opportunity to ask why someone of such vast experience held a personal belief they hammered away at the hobbling post with their mistaken assumption.
No one enjoys being told that they don’t know what they’re talking about. Even if we suspect it’s true, we resent having it pushed in our face. It’s even worse when we have devoted ourselves to reading and talking with other people about the subject at hand. We hate thinking that all that effort has gone to waste. If you have the inclination this anonymous typer has a piece of advice. When you’re tempted to be angry at your preconceived notions or mistaken assumptions being held up to you, think less about the irritation of having your ideas attacked and more about the opportunity to expose yourself to new and wider experiences. It isn’t always pleasant. It might even be something you don’t want to hear but in my experience it’s easier to walk a Celtic Pagan path without the hindrance of two broken legs.
I’d be interested in hearing more about what the Old One had to say. For that matter, I’d also like to hear more about walking a Celtic Path in Ireland from those that do.
I agree that one learns from “being here now” rather than from living in the houses of preconceptions and mistaken assumptions. The logical extremity of losing these is a kind of nothingness that the ancients presented as the way to imbas.
So when are the ancient sites going to be allowed a good bonfire/firepit? Where is the dividing line between tradition and modern life nowadays? Is there a list of 100 Pagan Celtic things to do in Ireland before one dies?
Hi Searles,
You could drop over to http://www.AnFianna.com if you want to know what Irish people in Ireland do with celtic neopaganism, or Irish folk religion… among other things. Its a quiet site by people who left ARD a few years ago and a few clingers on like myself and a member of the Diaspora who moved to Ireland.
I dunno if Id agree about the word nothingness I would use the term naturalness even if its not a word. Being in full awareness of the moment and responding to it in an instinctual way. But rather then the instinct being made of void Id say instinct comes from your upbringing in your culture and your personal exploration. A natural response for you. As we live and grow our responses will change but thats natural too.
We’ll never be allowed a bonfire on a sacred site Searles (especially not after the tara hippy camp wrecked 3 sacred sites with refuse) but you can buy metal firepits that only need a few holes in the ground. Noone stops you gathering, just camping.
I took a look at the site you suggested and it seems to be populated by decent folks. I made a few postings there but was eventually steamrolled by their requirement to post an introduction. I think that nothingness is just another way of saying to abide in quietness. Nature only seems quiet and time does not hold still even in a moment.
As to be allowed a bonfire on a sacred site, I guess in this bureaucratic and controlled age one will have to establish new sacred sites away from the control of the bean counters and control freaks. As population pressures increase and private property right diminish, these too will vanish. Future ages will have to settle for simulated flames I guess. I already have one of those.
Keep at it and maybe I’ll drop by for a look sometime both cyber-wise and in Nature of course.
Ah thats a pity you didnt post the intro Searles there arent many places online where you can find those types of people. Im sure theyd have welcomed you into the fold. they may still if you want to get back onto the site… I know the site owner was without the interwebs and shed remember you.
I dunno about establishing new sacred sites anyway… the idea might be at odds with the nature of irish folk religion if not celtic neopaganism in Ireland. Traditional culture tends to sacralize things because of their history rather then constructing new things and giving them a specific meaning. Sites here are sacred because of their history and their association with the trad culture. I dunno how we’d create that in a short space of time… or how long it would survive. really we cant have people building bonfires on sacred sites because they are sacred… its a catch 22
The site was interesting but I’m not one to be reguated so I wish them well in their endeavors there but will not rejoin. I will say that it is a first for me to be “auto-banned” froma site just because I did not post an intro. ISTM that they should not approve a person as a member in the first place if they are going to do that. Oh well.
When I remarked about finding new sacred sites, I was thinking about the tales told about Iceland and the first people who came there. They had their seers and sacred persons walk the land to locate the centers of power to establish sacred sites. I think that should be done in Ireland in this modern age. The old sacred places have been turned into styrofoam/concrete wonders and reinterpreted by those without much of a clue. Besides that, there seem to be quite a few Christian structures confusing the surviving energies there. The Old Gods might bless a few new sites just to clean house.
Searles if you take that tack youre goin to find yourself in a rough position Take W.B. Yeats with regards to the trads. He was instrumental in the literary revival here and in Irish neopaganism but he wanted his own way instead of meeting the trads on their own terms. Theres an exhibition here in the national writers museum here of Yeats and his involvement in the occult, the golden dawn and so on. There are letters where Yeats writes to magregor-mathers looking for contacts in the folk religion and Mathers could only reply that he’d burned his bridges. Ending Yeats attempts at celtic neopaganism. There are very few places I can point you too online, Irish people are social creatures and sitting at a computer is not thatm there are very few people in Ireland like those on anfianna some of them have masters from world class colleges in celtic studies and are also directly involved in the folk religion.
If you choose not to go back its your choice but as much as I respect you it looks to me like youre biting off your nose to spite your face.
With regards to sacred sites, Arch Druid con connor and Druidschool do practice dowzing here you could try them with regards to undiscovered sacred sites at http://www.Druidschool.com. Though sacred sites are important because of their role in sacralizing the world around us, it negates the need for ritual to achieve a mental state condusive to percieving the otherworld. A new site wont have that and would in essence be a site without traditional value only suitable to neopaganism that utilizes traditions from other cultures. It wouldnt be very Irish.
Nuadu,
Respect and courtesy are two way streets.
It’s no loss to me to not be posting on the forum/site we are discussing. I’m not the one that terminated the process. I’ve seen groups, sites and forums come and go over the years yet I continue in my own journey along the Druid way. I’ll share what I’ve found with those who care to listen. There’s lost of other ways to discuss these things than a single forum.
As to Ireland, I think the best approach is to listen to whatshe has to say in person. I’m hoping that I will be able to pay her a visit sometime this year or next.
I’ve pretty much lost respect for Con Connor and anything associated with him due to his behavior on the alt.religion.druid Usenet group.
I guess all these things are appropriate to your article’s title. I plan to proceed whether legs are broken, trust is lost or folks are just too full of themselves and their ways of doing things. As to this particular broken leg, I think it is just fine to walk around the pits and the potholes that are placed on one’s path. I’ll not be going back there.